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File: st4441_BacktoSchool.jpg-(56.32KB, 1070x1070, BacktoSchool.jpg)
4441 No. 4441 ID: 19d87b watch
Let's talk about going to school:

So, I debated for a while on where to put this, /k/ or /st/. It'd get more viewing in /k/, but this really can be taken as a tutorial, so I'm keeping it in /st/.

So, you've done it! You've decided to take your shooting to the next level. You're going to seek professional help and go to a Weapons Fighting Class. This could be anything as rudimentary as NRA Personal Defense in the Home (CPL/CCW/CWL class) or something like an Advanced Dynamic Hyperviolent Ninja Assault Course(the synonyms go on and on and on). And yes, some day I WILL take an Active Shooter Rappelling Course. I don’t know when, or how, or where, but I will fund one.

When I took my first real class (Basic Carbine, my CPL class was a joke), I did my homework. I researched the company, the instructors, the approval ratings. I hit up various forums and read AAR (After Action Reports). Then I went ahead and scheduled it.

After receiving the e-mail, I read the instructions. PLEASE READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. They may not be in the e-mail, they may be on the website. If they tell you to bring/not bring something, read and heed.

From here on out, we'll just talk about a Basic Carbine class. That seems to be the heat right now.

PRIORITY NUMBER 1: What are your goals? Having the mentality of “I just want to learn” is great. I encourage you to be a sponge. But you need to have specifics in mind, too.
Do you want to:
-Shoot better?
-Work on a specific skill that you're lacking?
-Get a tactical class under your belt for home defense?
-Shits and giggles?

Why did you take this course? Stop reading until you come up with an answer.

Have an answer? Good, let’s continue.

You'll be shooting for a day or two (sometimes three). You'll go through around 1000 rounds. It could be 750, it could be 1125. I'd personally add 300 rounds to whatever they say to bring. You can always bring ammo home. If they are going to incorporate your secondary weapon, you'll probably go through 300 pistol rounds. Bring 500. Same mentality. While we're talking about ammo. MAGAZINES! I like 10. I bring 10 (PRE-LOADED) magazines. The more the better, but 10 is a good number. That’s 10 for PRIMARY and 10 for SECONDARY. Got a buddy with an AR or the same pistol as you? Borrow his mags. Take him out to lunch later. But get as many as you can. In your down time you can do other things (like take a wiz or grab some grub) instead of load up 4 mags. Also, label them. Mark ‘em or burn your name into them. I’m not saying that everybody has sticky fingers, but it’s a definitive way of knowing what’s your shit or not. Sometimes empty mags make it into your dump pouch, sometimes they don’t.

So, what do we put those magazines into? (no, not rigs, we're not that advanced yet). THE RIFLE you doof! What stick are you bringing to show off? An AR or an AK? Those are basically your only two choices, unless you have something unique. 9.9/10 people will have ARs. You will need a weapon in 5.56x45, 5.45x39 or 7.62x39. You may be able to get away with 7.62x51, but check with your instructor first. Actually, if you're bringing ANYTHING other than an AR-15, check with your instructor. Some don't do AKs. DO-NOT bring a KelTec SU-16 or variant thereof. Just don't. You’ll get laughed at. I’m not knocking it, I’m just saving you the embarrassment.

So, what about your rifle? Well, it should be tough. It will get banged around. It should be on the lighter side (you'll thank me at the end of the day). It should be reliable. It should have at least 400 trouble free rounds through it. I could write a whole different article just on the rifle, so I'll stop here. (Ask questions if you have them).

Now, let's talk clothing. I know it sounds silly, but, well, just bear with me. DO NOT WEAR SHORTS. Say this out loud with me. DO-NOT-WEAR-SHORTS. Jeans are even kind of taboo. They better be loose fitting and dirty. Cargo pants are the way to go. Pockets for misc. shit, they aren't shorts, and well, they're basically the uniform pant of the shooter. Top: first layer: underarmour or some sort of moisture wicking layer. Then, depending on how much you're going to be moving, either a t-shirt or two, or a polo. Long sleeves help but are not required. Knee and elbow pads, however, are required. Same for gloves or athletic tape. I sometimes wear a ball cap. Also, if you wear a ball cap and somebody gives you shit for wearing it backwards, just simply out shoot them. Problem solved. Boots/shoes should be light and comfortable.

Ear/Eye pro:
Wrap around sunglasses or clear lenses. Foam ear plugs work in a pinch. I don't like ear muffs. I sometimes borrow a buddy's PELTORs with the head set and radio/talk rig. I really like the SureFire earpro. They're comfy and I can hear everything I need to.

Rigs:
Again, I could go into a whole different discussion between war belts, shooter rigs, vests and carriers. Find something comfortable and what fits your mission. You do not need an armor carrying rig and a million pouches for a basic class. I can guarantee that your gear placement will change 12 times a day. It happens to everybody. My pistol mag pouch has a habit of jumping all over the place during a 2 day course. You'll figure out what works and 86 what doesn't.

What you’ll need on your person:
-4 primary magazines (at least)
-4 secondary magazines (at least)
-IFAK (individual first aid kit)
-Dump Pouch (not required, but it basically is now-a-days)
-Pistol + holster
-Hydration

Other things like: knife (folding or non), multi tool, phone in a tough case, spare gun parts (firing pin/bolt), rubber bands, SLiP, candy/power bar are all good ideas for your pockets/small pouch. I personally ALWAYS have gummy bears. It’s just my thing. Chocolate for obvious reasons is a bad idea, same for glass bottles. You laugh at me for bringing that up, but I’ve seen stupid before. It ended with a cut up hand, a trip to the hospital and the end of that guy’s day.

Larger items like a few extra water bottles/sandwiches/replacement parts are good, but you don’t need them on you. Keep them by your gear (usually in the range room) or on a bench. It’s not uncommon for a guy to bring 2-3 rifles and 2-3 pistols. He may want to work with them all through the day, or use if something breaks. If you only bring one rifle and it craps out on you, somebody will give you a loaner. Don’t expect one, just be grateful if you get one. Most instructors have a basic rack rifle for this exact purpose.

Slings:
One point is quick, two point are comfortable, three point will get you tangled. Your decision (or if you're like me and can't decide: Magpul MS2 sling 1 AND 2 point).

Now that we have the gear-stuff covered, let’s talk about the day before:

Pack your shit up and leave it in your living room. Have your "don't forget shit" list handy. Check your gear, several times. Also, know where the closest Wal-Mart is in case you need to get something (important) before class starts.

Try to relax that day. Stay out of the sun. Don't do yard work. Don't do anything mentally taxing. Just try and hang out. You'll be as giddy as a schoolgirl, but just hang out. Play some video games. Jerk it. Eat good food. Just relax.

The morning of:
Say class starts at 0800. That means class STARTS AT 0800. Not show up at 0800. You'll most likely have a sign in, you'll need to get set up, etc. Be in the parking lot of the range at 0700. If you're the first one there, get out and get your shit out of your vehicle. Get ready to go as soon as they open up the door.

You'll get a safety lecture/medical lecture before any shooting starts. Nothing is more distracting than when some yahoo walks in the door asking where he needs to be signed in at while we're hearing about how to treat hypovolement shock. DO NOT BE THAT ASSHOLE.

Range rules/gun rules: Follow them. If a line is cold, don’t fuck with anything that goes “bang”. If the instructors are jumpy that’s a quick and easy way to get a bunch of rifles pointed at you…or at least bitched out. Ask White Zombie.

Stuff that I did not know, but now I know better:
-Bring food. Sometimes you’ll have a catered lunch or dinner. Bring food anyways. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on wheat bread are delicious and nutritious. Bring water. Stay hydrated. You’re running around all day, you’re going to be hungry and thirsty.
-Don’t beat yourself up. Don’t take yourself too seriously. Don’t be the class clown.
-Gear bag. Range Bag. Backpack. Separate things out accordingly. This way you’re not digging around looking for stuff.
-Bring a spare change of clothes. Bring a spare pair of socks for the spare pair of socks.
-You won’t realize you’re in heat exhaustion until you’re in heat exhaustion. Know the signs: If you stop sweating, pale skin, non-elastic skin STOP. Tell an adult. You’re not being a pussy for stopping. If you continue you’re just a hazard for others. Take 5 and cool off. Good instructors notice the signs and square you away before you even think there might be something wrong.
-Realize that you’re probably going to be the only under 30 year old (I’m assuming that most OpChan users are under 30). If somebody makes fun of you for it, take it in stride. Laugh it off. Then outshoot the motherfucker on the range later. Make a friendly jab about their old eyesight. This is male bonding, it helps in class.

Mentality:

Here we go, this was what my original post was going to be about.

You are there to learn. You are not there to show off. You must understand that these types of classes attract Alpha Males. Everybody there is going to try to show why they are the best. I hate these guys. I hate the Alpha Male. Why can't I just be "male"? Do not get intimidated. Go in and get your monies worth. Do not be so timid that you think about what the guy next to you is doing that you screw up a reload.

You're going to be nervous. Trust me, the feeling never goes away. Find your groove and stick with it. Also, find your lane and stay in it, too. You're not the best, don't try and sprint at the beginning of a marathon. It's highly encouraged to sprint at times: this is how you push yourself and learn, but trying to do it all the time will, well, waste your time.

Most of the guys (and occasional girl) are nice, pleasant and helpful. On breaks everybody likes to talk. Join in. By the end of class you'll all bond and push each other to be better. There is going to be "that guy", and don't worry, everybody knows he's "that guy", just kind of ignore him.

I hope this little tutorial helps. I hope it'll encourage you to take a class. Go out, make mistakes. That's why you're in class, to learn.

If I missed anything then ask me. There are a few of us on Opchan who have gone to class, I’d invite them to chime in as well.

Also, for the love of God, look presentable. Don't come in with a ratty pony tail, patchy facial hair, jean shorts and a band hoodie. Don't talk about Deagles and Nuggets.

You may be from the internet, but these guys are not. If you do this, I'll find you. You know I will. And I'll kill you.
Expand all images
No. 4444 ID: 19d87b
Seriously, don't be an alpha male.
No. 4445 ID: 9c426a
Read every single sentence. Excellent tutorial Bushwacker. I have these courses listed out as "in the future after I get out of undergrad and have my own place" along with owning a bunch of guns.
No. 4448 ID: 731b65
Good write up as usual.

At some point I would love to take a class. I'll keep these things in mind.
No. 4452 ID: 19d87b
>>4445
Most ranges have "basic pistol 1/2" "basic rifle 1/2" and they're on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Might be worth looking into. Those ones tend to be super relaxed.

Or just start 3-gunning on the cheap. Learn real quick. Also, thanks for reading.
>>4448
See above and thanks for reading.
No. 4460 ID: 32cb5d
Definitely something I want to do at some point in the future, thanks for the write-up Bushwacker. Unfortunately, living in Canada means I'm kinda limited in my options (pretty hard to do a class where you are limited to 5 rounds in your primary and 10 in your secondary). I can at least go for my Black Badge here, and after I build an AR I'll make a shootan' holiday down to the states.
No. 4464 ID: daa9e8
One thing to add in regards to gear you mention for example Chest rig, knee/elbow pads, slings, holsters.

I recall once an anecdote of it being pretty obvious on the first day who had skimped on cost and gone for the cheaper airsoft knockoffs and similar cheap items as they would fall apart rather quickly while the real shit would last the course and more.
No. 4472 ID: 19d87b
>>4464
Here's one thing that, well, I don't quite know how to put. I'll probably contradict myself a bit here:

Yes, quality produced gear that holds up to training is a must. You'll be moving, rolling, dropping and shifting around a lot. You don't want things to rip and tear at hour 2 of day 1.

On the other hand, you're already paying $250-500 for this class, plus $210 for primary ammo (and that's using Wolf), and another $100 for secondary ammo. Do you really want to spend another $300 on equipment for your first class?

Remember, this is your FIRST class. You don't know if you're going to get hooked or not. It took a lot to type out those last two sentences, EVERYBODY gets hooked. It's like building ARs or having sex. It's just awesome and you want to do it as much as you can/afford.

I had a write up I did some time ago on war belts, tac vests and heavy rigs. I'll see if I can find it.

Try going to school with just a war-belt or a LEO shooter rig. Something simple to just carry magazines. Throw your IFAK, dump pouch and holster on your belt.

You do not need to show up to your first class with $450 worth of gear, unless you got it on loan from a friend.

Actually, I know what I'm writing about at work today.
No. 4473 ID: 35e8ac
Bushwacker - you are have become integral to my opchan experience. Without you this site would be significantly less enjoyable and informative. Thank you for your help
No. 4475 ID: 19d87b
Different Rigs:

Ok, so let's say were getting ready for our first Carbine class ever. Fun! Right? ...right?

Well, let's assume we've read my previous post. You've got your clothing, your guns, your ammo and your mentality all squared away. Then you realize something. "OH SHIIII....what am I going to carry all of this stuff in?"

Here we go. What rig are you going to use? Well, lets look into some factors first:
-How hot outside is it going to be? Include humidity, then add 10 degrees, because you'll be moving a lot, holding a hot weapon, standing next to other like minded individuals.
-What is the "operator speed" of the class? By this I mean: Is it a casual class or will you guys be running constantly? What I mean is: Will the instructor take 10 minutes to introduce a concept, demonstrate it, explain the reasoning behind doing it, have you run it dry, have you run it slow with a hot weapon, then full speed? Or will they go "This is a tac-reload", do the motion, then have you go full speed.
-What's your budget?

So, we have a few catagories for rigs: None, War Belt, LEO Shooter Rig, Tac Vest, Armor Rig.

Now, we have something else to consider. How much shit do you really need? Bare bones: 4 primary magazines, 3 secondary magazines, IFAK, dump pouch, holster. Bam. That's bare bones for school.

Now you have some other stuff, too: Hydration, repair kit, misc. kit

Now you also have some stuff that you won't need: 12 misc grenade/flash bang pouches that .mil guys wear daily for stuff that they use daily. I'm not knocking guys over seas, I'm just saying they're kind of living off of what they're wearing. They may need a candy bar pouch. You, in school, do not.

So, how are we going to outfit you? Well, by now you can start to narrow down what you need or not (brotip: You can get rid of the catagories "none" and "Armor rig"). Now you need to start thinking about personal taste: War belts sag if you don't have suspenders, but they keep your body the coolest. LEO Shooter rigs are basically a rectangle on your chest for mags/couple pouches, they criss-cross behind your back. I find them uncomfortable. Tac Vests are comfy, but they don't ventalate all too well (if that's a concern for you).

Now, different objectives and missions constitute different gear. Sometimes you don't need a whole lot, sometimes you do.

As a beginner, I'd recommend a tac vest. They can be had from places online for $50-$80. Then add your pouches as you see fit. Like I said in my other post, you will be changing the positions of your gear as you move and shoot. Usually the 1/2 day of class the students are fighting their gear more than the concepts.

Primary/Secondary mags up front, easy access.
Holster on drop leg or on belt (personal call)
Dump pouch at 5-6-7 o'clock (depending on if your right/left handed)
IFAK on 5-6-7 o'clock (and in that magical "out of the way but still easily accessed area)
Hydration on back or throw a water bottle in your back pocket.

Everything else goes to "fill the voids". You'll 86 the pouches or move them somewhere else.

As you get more advanced and go to more classes, you'll start experimenting with different rigs. You'll find stuff you like and don't. You'll probably buy another one or two.

I own 3 rigs: War Belt, Tac Vest, Armor Rig
I first got the Tac Vest, and it's my go-to for classes.
Then I got the War Belt. I use it for competitions and practice. My Armor Rig I got from a buddy. I did a shoot house and Armor was a requirement. He ended up getting a new rig, so I gave him his armor back and he let me keep the carrier.

Another thing that you may or may not want to include: I have a Write in the Rain notebook and pen. I carry one, well, all the time. But in class it's good to have for a whole slue of things: Contact info, name/type of gear somebody has that I like, write down what I screwed up and need to practice, write down new concepts, etc. They're small and can go in your back pocket.
No. 4477 ID: d7d341
File: st4477_103_0206.jpg-(1.08MB, 1800x1200, 103_0206.jpg)
4477
Figured I'd share what my class vest has evolved into.

From left to right, water bottle/shotting gloves/misc. crap pouch, blowout pouch, of course the main rifle mag pouches, pistol mag pouches, and a small pouch for oil.

Be sure to practice with your rig before the class. Nothing like wasting your time fuckin' with your gear when you should be hydrating, urinating, and jamming mags because you were too lazy or too 'busy' to give your rig at least a dry run.

I'm lucky I only has to move one pouch around. I saw guys almost completely disassembling their rigs to get them to run more smoothly.
No. 4478 ID: a732d8
>Now, let's talk clothing. I know it sounds silly, but, well, just bear with me. DO NOT WEAR SHORTS. Say this out loud with me. DO-NOT-WEAR-SHORTS. Jeans are even kind of taboo. They better be loose fitting and dirty. Cargo pants are the way to go. Pockets for misc. shit, they aren't shorts, and well, they're basically the uniform pant of the shooter. Top: first layer: underarmour or some sort of moisture wicking layer. Then, depending on how much you're going to be moving, either a t-shirt or two, or a polo. Long sleeves help but are not required. Knee and elbow pads, however, are required. Same for gloves or athletic tape. I sometimes wear a ball cap. Also, if you wear a ball cap and somebody gives you shit for wearing it backwards, just simply out shoot them. Problem solved. Boots/shoes should be light and comfortable.

Lol @ your description of our typical dress.

>three point will get you tangled
3 points require more training to use properly, I know exactly what you're talking about too and it's fucking hilarious to watch whenever someone new to a 3 point tries to do that offhanded transfer without directing his weapon properly or having it adjusted properly.
>You are there to learn. You are not there to show off. You must understand that these types of classes attract Alpha Males. Everybody there is going to try to show why they are the best. I hate these guys.
<3
+2 because they show up at the range and irk me.

>Make a friendly jab about their old eyesight. This is male bonding, it helps in class.
and a good way to make them feel incompetent and question themselves every 3 seconds.

The most BOSS way to ruin someone's shit for talking bad about you.
No. 4479 ID: 19d87b
>>4473
Glad I could help. Thanks for reading. Petition serv for a /rev/ (review) board. That's the best way of thanking me. The best way to go about this is either:
A.) find every thread serv posts in and say "GODDAMNIT SERV GIVE BUSHWACKER A REVIEW BOARD"
or
B.) After every post you make (no matter what board it's in), sign it with "GODDAMNIT SERV, GIVE BUSHWACKER A REVIEW BOARD".
Thanks for reading (again). Hope it helps.

>>4477
>Be sure to practice with your rig before the class. Nothing like wasting your time fuckin' with your gear when you should be hydrating, urinating, and jamming mags because you were too lazy or too 'busy' to give your rig at least a dry run.
This. So. Much. This.
>>4478
lawl.
No. 4513 ID: 9c426a
>>4441
On the subject of rigs, I was looking at war belts, chest rigs, and the like, and it seems most are nothing more than MOLLE setups. I also don't know the shitty/non-shitty brands and names to trust.

I've been looking at an ATS tactical war belt. I'd rather drop $45 on it than $100+ on a chest rig right now. Any helpful advice on that would be welcome. It's probably for a different thread though.

Bushwacker, you should review rigs. :D
No. 4514 ID: d7d341
>>4513

Yeah, these dude here (http://www.atstacticalgear.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?display=home) are definitely good to go. I like the rigger's belt and the Hatch shooting gloves I got from them. And they're pretty darn quick.

I personally don't much care for war belts, but I do see their place.
No. 4515 ID: dc4651
>>4513
ATS War Belt is good to go.

Other good belt systems are the ICE Battle Belt/Adjustable Battle Belt, OSOE Tapered War Belt, Diamondback Tactical® Backpack/Assaulters Accesory Belt and Tactical Tailor Modular Padded Belt.
No. 4517 ID: 19d87b
>>4513
Adding to the list:

For a BEGINNER rig: Condor. They used to be shit, but they've kind of stepped their game up. Again: BEGINNER. As in: IFAK, Primary Mag Pouch, Pistol Mag Pouch, Admin Pouch.

BLACKHAWK! Tactical makes a good MOLLE vest (no pouches included).

ATS (home of Lightfighter) makes good stuff. Same with BFG.
No. 4518 ID: a732d8
>>4513
Eagle Industries will get you fucking squared away on gear/rigs etc.

HSGI is great for subloads but I'm really really iffy on buying a rig, they're pricey as shit.

But for the money and quality, you really can't beat Eagle..
No. 4532 ID: 9c426a
>>4514
>>4515
>>4517
>>4518
Thanks guys. I think I'm going to go ahead and start out with a war belt, then move up to a light chest rig if the belt doesn't work out.
No. 4533 ID: a732d8
>>4532
If you're running a "war belt" thing with ammo for more than just your pistol or are going to have thinks like an IFAK, Canteen and other shit you NEED to get suspenders.

As cool as this warbelt thing is, if you don't have a way to keep it stable it'll fuck with your pants and the belt on your pants.

Otherwise you'll have to keep the belt tight and constrict your movement, even if it's padded more than a few runs will wear you the hell out like a little red corvette.

So be easy on it pimpin' and do right by your comfort above all else, any idea what you're doing for a belt?

You can always grab an old pistol belt for like 10 dollars in a surplus store and buy a fuckton of ALICE gear (MOLLE does work if you do it right but they will shift if you don't secure them) and maybe rock a subload for more belt space.

Ask yourself what you want the rig to do...
I have a confirmed 2 way range kit
A light skirmish/fighter kit
Low profile kit
and a "I hate being in tight places" kit

I can mix them together to tailor them to whatever I'm using or doing as well so that's also a pro.

So just let us know and we'll set you up with something good.
No. 4544 ID: 9c426a
>>4533
I only chose war belt because it seems like Bushwacker recommended it for beginners, and I'd rather spend the cheaper money on it than something like a chest rig or plate carrier.

I honestly don't know what I use it for, probably just outdoor range work. What with my not owning any guns of my own, and not being in the military, I can't see much practical reason for owning a full-on, six mag pouch, IFAK, admin pouch tactical-what-have-you war belt or chest rig, I just think they're cool.

I mean, honestly, I'm not really that operator, I just like operator stuff.

I'll make a new thread about this if it becomes an issue. You guys provided me with more than enough info to get me started selecting a rig and I don't want to hijack Bushwacker's thread.
Thanks guys. :)
No. 4545 ID: d7d341
>>4544

If you ever get into AR's and shooting classes, you might consider this rig. It's a very g2g rig, especially for classes.

http://www.skdtac.com/Blue_Force_Gear_Ten_Speed_Chest_Rig_p/3sk.101.htm
No. 4546 ID: 9c426a
>>4545
Holy cow, that is low profile. Looks sleek, I'll take your advice on that. I hope to run a carbine course at some point in my life.
No. 4654 ID: de148e
>>4533
What is a "confirmed 2 way range kit?"
No. 4655 ID: 89c7f9
>>4654

Your kit for when the targets shoot back.
No. 4658 ID: de148e
>>4655
Oh. Thanks. :D
No. 4951 ID: 626bdc
It came up in another thread:

Why do you guys take/want to take classes?

Also, I'm going to a pistol class tomorrow. Should be fun times.
No. 4952 ID: a732d8
>>4951
Because I can and they're fun.

Also because really there are more benefits than anything negative, what do I lose other than time and money?

Time and money in exchange for training, preparation, knowledge and even fun?

Sounds good to me.
Haters gonna hate man.
Not to mention it benefits whomever chooses to enlist or go the way of Security/Contract whatever.
No. 4960 ID: 1ad3c8
>>4951
Shooting is like any skill, if you don't practice it, it will degrade over time. Likewise, if you don't push yourself every now and then, you'll never improve.

I work with a physical trainer twice a month. It's not because I don't know how to work out, but every now and then it helps to get my ass kicked out of my comfort zone and pushed beyond what I thought my limits were.

It's the same with shooting. I don't want to just be 'good enough' or 'decent' at it. Sometimes you need to get pushed out of your comfort zone to improve.

All that, plus it's something that is fun. Unless the other students are king douchebags, you'll end up making some friends during a class. It's especially difficult to find people near you who are into 'tactical' shooting, so there's that benefit too.

Unlike wasting money on something that gives you no net benefit, I see nothing but positives in going to a shooting class or two every year.
No. 4961 ID: 9dc080
>>4951
Mostly education. I very much doubt I'm ever going to use any HSLD OPERATAN skillz I learn outside of a class, but I think shooting's fun and I like the mentality of classes that prepare you for a bad situation. So yeah, I doubt I'll ever be forced into something like an Active Shooter situation, but it's interesting to think about and I think the training sounds fun.
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